R. C. Angevine (10) (7.5) (5) (10) (10)
(7.5) (7.5) (0)
1. Graduates ill-prepared. Agreed,
especially in the areas of teamwork and communication.
4. Document proficiency. I
wholeheartedly agree with this statement but am concerned about the
ability for schools to relatively quickly be able to do this. I think
part of the solution would be for industry to help with documenting
the proficiencies needed.
5. Define course expectations.
7. Change agents needed. It needs to
begin somewhere so that improvements can be demonstrated. Once that
occurs others will follow.
Bert LeMunyon (7.5) (7.5) (5) (5) (5) (5)
1. Graduates ill-prepared. I think the
emphasis should be placed on what students know more than what they
can do. The workplace is too varied to expect institutions to train
students for specific jobs. Employers want prospects to have good
communicative and inter-personal skills as well as basic knowledge of
math and science. Employers can teach them the rest.
3. Credits gained, not learning. How can
we encourage/inspire students to take more difficult and rigorous
courses such as math, science and engineering? Will proficiency
evaluations chase more students away or will it encourage them? Are
the secondary schools doing enough to prepare students for
4. Document proficiency. Aren't
examinations supposed to do that?
5. Define course expectations. Not all
aspects of education prepare students for a job, but they should at
least prepare them for living. Many students look to grad schools to
prepare for a vocation.
7. Change agents needed. Let some
institutions change to the new model and see how it works before
disrupting the entire educational system.
Chris Brazelton (7.5) (7.5) (7.5) (10) (10)
(7.5) (10) (0)
3. Credits gained, not learning. Those
who can afford to might be able to do this. Credits cost money.
4. Document proficiency. How does one
document proficiency? What kind of testing? Can one then "test out" of
a class by proving proficiency on the road to certification? Should
certification be "graded" based on level of competency? Do we have
some of that now with honors designation at graduation?
5. Define course expectations. I thought
I had that at Metro State. It was how my work was graded.
7. Change agents needed. How about Work
Ethic 101? I see many people not succeeding with employers due to a
poor work ethic. I applaud a system in which employers are partners in
the process of developing standards and measurements of proficiencies
Don Anderson (5) (7.5) (7.5) (7.5) (7.5) (5)
Dave Broden (10) (7.5) (10) (10) (7.5) (5)
1. Graduates ill-prepared. While there
is an increasing link of business and industry to education units, the
disconnect of education with the real world continues. This disconnect
delays the employee progress in job search and start up in the job and
often causes employee-to-employer stress, etc. A stronger link will
2. Change or decline. Fundamental change
is required to maintain the quality of work force. The level of
decline, though real and certain, will vary. Incremental changes
should continue but the focus must be to achieve major change.
3. Credits gained, not learning. The
student progress using grades is entirely outdated and has minimal
link to real acquired skills for any job. For those who view job entry
flexibility the same remains valid regardless of the particular job,
4. Document proficiency. Proficiency
measurement is a must objective. The effort to define and measure
proficiency will, however, require significant innovation and as a
result some form of a hybrid system may be both required and desired.
Proficiency via an internship cannot be done for all students and all
5. Define course expectations. The
problem with the statement is that post-secondary instructors cannot
spell out the expectations since they too have little or no knowledge
of the real workplace skills and activities. This again suggests that
proficiency measurement is a challenge.
6. Reassert intellectual control. This
will depend on the proficiency of the instructors--they cannot control
something they are not familiar with.
7. Change agents needed. This is a very
positive method but some form of overall process and approach is
required. To apply this randomly is perhaps not wise but should be
8. Retain credit model. The current
system is broken and continued use of the credit-based system is
Bright Dornblaser (10) (7.5) (0) (2.5) (10)
(0) (10) (5)
Lisa Lewis (7.5) (10) (10) (10) (7.5) (5)
5. Define course expectations. This
would be extremely difficult for an instructor to do on a detailed
basis because so much of what students are learning could be used in
ways the instructor may not even be able to envision. However,
students may benefit from knowing how they could use calculus, for
example. Many uses for information haven't even been dreamed up yet.
6. Reassert intellectual control.
Reassert intellectual control? Is that even possible?
8. Retain credit model. It's not the
instructors you have to convince. It's the parents; their expectations
will influence their children's effort, and to tell a parent that
their son/daughter isn't going to graduate because they lack
proficiency in an area they deem unnecessary will be asking for
Keith Ewing (7.5) (7.5) (7.5) (10) (7.5)
(10) (7.5) (2.5)
1. Graduates ill-prepared. They often
don't demonstrate a high level of competency in a course, but it is
sufficient to pass the course. Would the same be true for proficiency?
Would students be able to game the system (after some experience with
it) as they do now?
2. Change or decline. "Fundamental
change" is difficult to assess based on evidence available. A concern
is that post-secondary education should not be solely focused on
creating worker bees. Post-secondary education should teach people to
think deeper, more critically, to understand problems and solutions at
macro and micro levels as well as long and short-terms, to assess and
manage risk, and to act responsibly and ethically, as a foundation to
practical participation in the work force.
3. Credits gained, not learning.
Students also come to believe that a degree is a credential awarded
for effort rather than competence. Both are somewhat aided and abetted
by systems and legislatures that treat credits and credentials as
commodities to be acquired.
4. Document proficiency. This is akin to
the proficiency-based system in some parts of British higher
education--although primarily in the tutorial seminars system seen in
Oxford, Cambridge, Durham, and a few others. It's an expensive system
and logistically complex (as students gain proficiency at different
rates in different fields).
5. Define course expectations. An
interesting dilemma in this regard is how course expectations, which
may emphasize academic knowledge or skills, translate to a workforce
environment that emphasize practical knowledge and skills. Students
often are unable to translate from one environment to the other--in
part because it's not part of the curriculum expectations.
6. Reassert intellectual control. While
it is easy to agree with this statement, it is difficult to assert in
the current political environment.
7. Change agents needed. There is danger
when an institution is part of a public system--especially when it can
be viewed as "bucking" the system.
8. Retain credit model. Proficiency
accrues over time and often requires a combination of knowledge,
skill, and maturity. Education can deal with the first two, but is a
weak developer of the latter.
Beth Aune (10) (7.5) (7.5) (10) (10) (7.5)
5. Define course expectations. And,
postsecondary instructors should require students to demonstrate that
they have mastered the expectations. (Require the use of well-designed
assessments, including performance assessment where appropriate. The
criteria for judging student performance should be spelled out for
students before their performance is assessed.)
Nan Skelton (10) (10) (7.5) (10) (10) (7.5)
Chuck Lutz (9) (8) (8) (9) (9) (8) (8) (2)
Al Quie (10) (10) (9) (10) (10) (5) (10) (0)
There is much more to education than skills
for a job. I am glad Johnson referred to collaborative learning and
Roy Thompson (7) (7) (9) (7) (8) (6) (8) (4)
Wayne Jennings (10) (8) (8) (10) (10) (8)
He is right on. I especially like
documenting proficiencies or competencies in what students can do and
know about real world measures.
Thomas Chisholm (na) (na) (na) (na) (na) (na)
1. It begins with teachers at all levels.
Teachers must be selected from the top of the group as is done in
Finland and paid wages equal to their worth, ability, and results. See
Smithsonian, Nov. 2011.
2. I see no examples that describe the method so I can better grasp
3. First one must read and write--widely and well.
4. Who will do the hard, manual labor, pouring cement, filling pot
holes, plowing snow, driving trucks, serving meals, delivering mail,
be the handy men and woman, work in hotels at a living wage?
5. How will the great mass of students learn, enjoy and apply morals
and ethical principles to lower level as well as more complex jobs?
6. Who will be Romney's 47% and enjoy the beauty of life?
I have a real problem with electricity,
changing an electric cord to a lamp and using the correct plug with a
ground, among other things. Who measures?
Paul and Ruth Hauge (8) (7) (6) (8) (7) (7)
Tom Spitznagle (8) (7) (9) (10) (10) (8) (8)
The interview notes that the only workforce
growth in Minnesota comes from population groups whose educational
attainment has been poor. This caused me to wonder what role growing
government welfare programs have in acting as a disincentive for
people in these groups from pursuing an education. Numerous government
benefit programs serve to create a "breakeven" point in many people’s
minds, i.e. – why put the energy into an education when one can
achieve a minimal or acceptable level of well-being without doing so?
Perhaps dealing with this aspect is an equally critical part of
improving overall educational achievement – at least for the
low-achieving groups noted in the interview.
Another thought – for years the public school system has incented
teachers to obtain additional credits and then automatically rewarded
them with more pay simply for doing so even though for many teachers
obtaining additional credits has no bearing on improving their
effectiveness in teaching students. A proficiency model for teachers
would be a big step forward for both students and their parents (i.e.
– public school’s primary customers).
Robert J. Brown (10) (10) (8) (10) (8) (5)
This should have been done long ago. We have
actually gone backwards. I recall when a community college and
technical school merged the technical school had to give up its
process of allowing students to move ahead at their own pace and
instead had to put everyone in a strait jacket of counting seat time –
11 weeks in a quarter, regardless of whether or not the student could
have completed the course and developed the competencies in less time
(or might have needed more time to complete the competencies. Instead
each student was forced into the same seat time. No wonder why bright
students hate the system that holds them back and slower students are
frustrated because they just get low grades and aren't given adequate
time to develop.
Tim Hall (na) (na) (na) (na) (na) (na) (na)
I think what schools are most afraid of if
we put a computer on the desk in the first grade students would
excelerate at an uncontrollable rate. By the time students are in
forth grade some students would be reading at a forth grade level and
others at a college level. A computer would make learning about the
student that could be tracked from grade to grade.
In trade schools there are grades, but
everything comes down to the production test already. The grading is
mostly about if the student understands the vocabulary of the trade
they are going into. They will be tested on the vocabulary by the
employer weather they are going to school for health care or even a
Larry Schluter (8) (8) (7) (7) (9) (8) (7)