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 Response Page - Survey on MN Election Structure -     


These comments are responses to the questions listed below,
which were generated as a survey on the structure of elections in Minnesota, 11-17-08.

 
The Questions:


1._5.1 average___ On a scale of (0) strong disagreement, to (5) neutral, to (10) strong
agreement, is the ballot too long?

2. What specific offices, if any, ought to be filled in some other way than via
the general election ballot?
judges, soil conservation districts mentioned frequently; also see comments below

3. _6.0 average___ On a scale of (0) strong disagreement, to (5) neutral, to (10) strong
agreement, should ranked choice voting, also known as Instant Runoff Voting,
(IRV), be used so that every winning candidate would need to receive a majority?

4. _6.7 average ___ On a scale of (0) strong disagreement, to (5) neutral, to (10) strong
agreement, should voting times and locations be modified for the convenience of
voters?

5. What suggestions might you have for changing times and locations for voting?
see comments below


Richard McGuire (0) (7) (10)
Question 2: The judges, of course.

Glenn S. Dorfman (5) (10) (10)
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill

Election day should be on a Sunday (24 hours) with broad-web-based voting for 24 hours.

John R. Finnegan, Sr. (5) (10) (10)
Question 2: Judges

Vici Oshiro (5) (7) (10)
IRV is theoretically excellent but I fear a practical nightmare.

Expand early and mail voting. Eliminate requirement that voter has one of 3 reasons for needing an absentee ballot. This requirement that has been ignored by election judges in MN for at least as long as I've been voting absentee. Some other states are much stricter.

Can someone figure out a way to count absentee and early votes at a central location instead of in the precinct and still retain privacy and security? I've been an election judge so am reasonably familiar with procedures. So far I've not found a way to count early and absentee votes separately and still allow absentee voters to replace that vote with another on election day - something they can now do.

Robert J. Brown (6) (0) (0)
Question 2: Follow the Quie Commission's recommendations to eliminate contested elections for judges - just vote on retention.

Question 5: More than enough options now - more choices just create more
opportunities for confusion, duplicate voting, and mismanagement.

John Nowicki (10) (10) (10)
Question 2: Judges unless opposed, Soil Conservation Districts, I would bet most voters do not know what this office does.

Question 5: Vote on the weekend like the rest of the western world does.

Dave Durenberger (5) (10) (_)
Question 5: Two-day weekend with 8 hours per day

Raise the money to pay the staff that makes the balloting and ballot-counting process work or contract with a company to get it done. If you do weekends, this opens up a lot of possible polling places and increases costs , but anything that eases access and accuracy must be done.

The most important change in voting would be to change how candidates qualify to appear on the ballot; plus how they can appear by their party affiliation with or without party endorsement.

Rick Krueger (10) (0) (10)
I believe the primary should become a mechanism that limits the candidates for General Election to the top two vote getters (for Minnesota Statewide and Congressional races). This would require us to rethink political party primaries in Minnesota and make them into something different than they are today.

The problem that I have with an instant run-off it that fundamentally I don't believe a candidate who is a distant 3rd in a General Election should jump into instant viability. To make that case seems a little too contrived...

Besides, it might be more logical to argue that the 2nd place vote getters in the Primary for the Democratic and Republican Parties are more viable alternatives than a 3rd place finisher from a different party. The reason is the Democratic and Republican Parties’ 2nd place vote getters may have garnered 30% of the general popular vote and therefore be better alternatives in an instant run-off than a candidate who received 15% of the general popular vote.

In addition, I believe we face a bigger problem in the loss of faith in the political process. I also believe that is self-inflicted by candidates who often run against the institution of government that they either serve in or are running to serve in. This is especially true for incumbent members of the legislature and Congress who may have served umpteen terms and still prefer to position themselves as outsiders.

Another major problem is that the major political campaigns have evolved into little more than mass media or targeted campaign mechanisms designed to inflict character assassinations. Despite strong dissent from some of my really close friends, it seems to me we need to improve laws for political truth-in-advertising. For now, the threshold of what is legitimate to run in advertisements is too low and not serving the purpose of electing qualified candidates who debate the merits of their proposals.

Pat Kessler on WCCO-TV with his Reality Checks offers probably the best example of an in-state version of what I'm talking about by the private sector. There is also FactCheck.org that does a great job of examining campaign claims and rumors in national races. CNN has a more limited version of either of these. But these efforts are relatively meager versus the amount of campaign advertisements the public is bombarded with. Somehow we need to get more citizens to pay attention to these venues and at least be armed with some actual facts.

Finally, as the former President of the Minnesota High Tech Association I know that we have better information technologies (IT) available that can really provide mechanisms to truly inform voters. However, it is with much chagrin that I see campaigns expertly using that very IT to bring more targeted misinformation to voters. Obviously, campaigns have throughout history frequently used questionable claims (or worse). However, the problem today is magnified by the pervasive nature and the targeted manner in which the campaigns can now reach voters...

Question 5: Investigate a method for Internet voting. (We have security systems strong enough to manage financial transaction integrity). Allow early voting as in other states.

John Milton (5) (10) (10)
Question 5: Have it on a two-day national holiday, as is several more advanced
countries than ours . National system of voter registration with back up data trail so that
first ballot per person is the only one that counts. Elimination of the irregularities that allow people who don't want everyone to vote to keep them out.

Bill Frenzel (0) (0) (5)
Question 1: I vote in Virginia. Had but 4 choices - 3 federal offices & 1 bond issue.

Question 3: I used to be neutral on IRV, but the more I think about it the less I like giving the losers a second vote.

Question 5: If times and locations are restricted, they should be modified. Minnesota, with walk-in registration, is too convenient now, so I see no need to become more so.

Charles Lutz (5) (8) (8)

Anonymous (3) (0) (0)
Question 1: You should see it in some other states.

Question 2. Judge. Water & Soil districts.

Question 4: It's already too convenient to vote.

Question 5: Even if absentee/early voting were restricted (which it should be), the only change I'd suggest is opening earlier (say, 6:00 a.m.).

Ray Schmitz (2) (9) (3)
Question 2: SWCD officials. I suspect that even the most nerdy among us cannot remember why they were originally put on the ballot. Moving judicial offices back to the county they serve rather then district wide.

Question 3. I am somewhat haunted by the specter of being governed by everyone's second choice, but then we have been for eight years.

Question 5: I think that we seem to be doing all right, but the ability to vote early would facilitate the process.

David Broden (6) (0) (0)
Structurally--the system is fine from a timing standpoint. The cycle and timing of events is well suited to the responsiveness of the people. The Minnesota caucus system and schedule when it works fits well into the national picture when a presidential year and is very good for a state election cycle. Moving the primary to June vs. September has no benefit from my point of view and in fact will lead to greater spending, more unnecessary and adds a further lack of clarity. The candidates have the exposure time as the party endorsements proceed and it is up to them for do what they think is best. We could over structure the system without adding any benefits. The form and organization of the ballot and how each race or issue is presented perhaps could be improved and if the recount shows lots of error perhaps a new way of marking ballots to clarify a bit could be
beneficial.

Question 1: Yes it is often too long but we have many elected positions in a republic/democracy and we need to cover all of them. The more appropriate issues is how should the ballot be structured etc.

Question 2: the dialogue on judges at all levels and soil and water conservation district board etc. needs to continue. Some other form may be appropriate at some time for these.

Question 3: The idea if IRV just does not fit into the style of government that we have making good decisions and leaders. The ranking is what our candidate selection process in about and the start of a new party will at sometime evolve to joint the others. We have a great system that IRV will weaken--people need to make decisions.

Question 4: Voting is a responsibility. A republic/democracy requires responsibility. We have the ability for absentee voting etc. That takes care of the location when that situation arises.

Chuck Slocum (8) (5) (10)
Question 2: I am supportive of the Quie Commission recommendation for judicial retention elections, allowing a qualitative review and up or down vote on each judge, based on performance. While the current elections for judges are often ceremonial, the potential for special interest mischief remains high. We do want to minimize partisan elections and special interest involvement in the selection of our judiciary.

The ballot election of conservation district and parks positions on a countywide basis ought to be handled by the county boards. The election of library board members ought to be handled in by appointment by the oversight jurisdiction.

Question 3: We should test this concept locally before implementing it more broadly.
The opportunity for non major parties to participate ought to be protected.

Question 5: Include more extensive mail-in-ballot opportunities and invest in the
development of a secure system for off-site electronic voting.

Marianne Curry (8) (10) (10)

Question 2: Voting for judges is like a stab in the dark without some form of effective evaluation of performance. I believe it is a sham for voters to make blind judgments on judicial candidates, who are best selected by a special panel.

Question 3: To avoid third party candidates from becoming "spoilers", we need to seriously consider IRV. This would ensure a place for third party candidates in the electoral process but would probably eliminate expensive recounts.

Question 5: Standing in line endlessly does not make sense for many harried working people with children. I believe the absentee ballot option should be opened up to anyone without screening for "valid" reasons defined by law.

Connie Morrison (__) (10) (__)

Larry Schluter (3) (3) (5)
I don't believe I saw a sample ballot in any newspaper, local or metro to look at all the positions that we need to vote on. In the past we used to see this. In the future this should be available at least online by specific precinct since this vary by so many different positions

Question 2: I think this is as good as time to vote for all positions available. As I indicated above, I don't think people are aware of all of the positions they need to vote on and need to have a sample ballot available.

Question 5: I believe we need to take a look at voting on the weekend as other
countries do.

Donald H. Anderson (3) (6) (5)
There appears to be some question if electronic voting is accurate, perhaps only the old method without electronics would be adequate today.

Question 2: Judges, soil conservation commissioners and similar positions.

Question 5: There is adequate time to vote. It wasn't a problem when I started voting and I see no reason to change at the present.


Peter Hennessey
Question 1. Yes the ballot is too long. At least here in CA we totally abuse the initiative process as the legislature and the County supervisors refuse to do their job and in fact they themselves add initiatives for the people to vote on directly. Then they run to the courts to invalidate the vote if they don't like the result.

Question 2. Good grief, this depends on the community. Do we still vote for dog catcher? I do not understand why people have to run for seemingly purely administrative offices (district attorney, sheriff, tax collector, state insurance commissioner, etc.) -- how the heck could a voter tell if the guy is a good manager or not? His employers and employees would know, not the average voter. Why do we vote on judges; what is the criterion for them -- their batting average on appeals?

Question 3. No IRV, please. Ever. You can't possibly foresee how you'd choose, without knowing your choice first.

Question 4. Yes, sure. More time, more places.

Question 5. Recruit more polling place volunteers, so you could run them in shifts. Recruit more polling places, and keep them open longer. Give people half-day off to go vote, if they work too far from home. Run truly non-partisan drives to encourage people to volunteer their facilities (store fronts, garages) and their time (as poll workers and poll watchers) -- and to vote.

Pam Ellison (_) (10) (10)
I think that the Office of Sheriff in all of the Counties, should not be an elected position. Where counties have a charter governing their county, the charter can be changed to make that office an appointed position. My growing concern is that currently our cities have the Police Chief that is appointed by the City. This is the way to go with Police and Fire Chiefs in my opinion because they directly affect the Public Safety. In situations where positions such as this are elected, there is really no easy way to replace the official except a recall. In these particular situations, a person directly involved in the Public Safety may need to be disciplined and possibly dismissed, the only way to do so is with a recall. In these cases, the numbers of petition signatures to do so, is horrendously high. I think that when these positions are appointed, there is an ability to FIRE the person in the position in the case of poor conduct. As an example, a recall in Ramsey County would require 50,000 + petition signatures to recall his position. In the case of concern of violations of the public trust that would be a long and convoluted process to engage in, when the person has committed a heinous offense in office. Any position that directly affects the public safety directly, should not be an elected office, in my opinion. If you look at the State Commissioners of the state departments, the Governor appoints and dismisses or fires those positions, they are not elected. I would say that in the County and Municipal Structures this should also be the case.

There has been great discussions on whether judges should be elected or appointed. I sometimes think that they should be appointed IF and only IF this would cause judges who perform poorly are dismissed. If there will be little chance this would be overseen and actually done, then the public should still weigh in with their vote. We need to provide more information about judges and their experience in a voters guide, so citizens can review credentials and vote with some foreknowledge.

Question 4: I think we should offer up a range of days where people can cast their vote. Traditionally in Minnesota we have not had much trouble with the election process, however, the fact that Florida and Ohio elections from the 2004 election as well as the 2000 election were in question and the Ohio election issues have still not been resolved by a Congressional inquiry, I think we need to make certain every vote is counted. I also worry about votes that come from our military service people from overseas location, how can the general public be assured that all of these absentee votes have been counted. I think the process needs to be much more transparent and explained to voters than possible.

Question 5: I favor actually, a National Holiday on election day for one. So that everyone has the day off and can allow everyone to easily vote without having to leave their place of business to cast their vote. I would also suggest a Saturday prior to the Election day. These two would allow people a choice, but would make it more accessible to everyone. I also think that the County Offices could accept votes the week prior. Of course the public would need to be assured that all votes done ahead of time will in fact be counted. Results of the several days of voting would not be finalized until the night of the actual Election Day, so as not to cause people to think that the election is already won, when in fact it is not.

Ellen Brown (0) (10) (10)
Question 2: It is really hard to vote for judges. I always have to ask some respected person for whom to vote.

Question 3: If this Senate race doesn't move the arrow on IRV, it will be unbelievable. I mean really. Do we want to elect a U.S. Senator with 42% of the vote? Not to mention the other plurality races.

Question 5: More encouragement for absentee/early voting.

Carolyn Ring (10) (3) (1)
As the head judge in a precinct I find election day registration and especially "vouching" an invitation for fraud. This is the view shared by many judges, no matter what party, but is strongly acclaimed by the very liberal majority we now have in the legislature.

Question 2: Judges, watershed districts, library board

Question 5: There is no perfect time. MN law allows up to 4 hours off from work to vote. Back in the dark ages when I started voting, in 1948, I was working at Investors and we had election day off. Many people took it as a day of vacation to do anything they wanted. The next day people were telling each other about what they did and the fact they didn't vote. I'm not sure human nature has changed much. I would have to see some very definitive research on changing voting to Saturday or Sunday as a way of increasing voter participation. We have the most liberal laws in the nation for eligibility to vote. We long ago eliminated having a notary sign an absentee ballot, and actually anyone can vote absentee. It is difficult to find any reason why someone cannot vote with the present time and places in Minnesota.

Rick Wilhoit (0) (6) (0)
I have been curious for some time as to how and who makes arrangements for residents, sometimes referred to by me as inmates, of nursing homes to vote. Who oversees their voting? How do we know that those who vote are legally competent, or if legally competent, are sufficiently informed to vote. I think there is much opportunity for hanky panky. Is this an unsupervised opportunity those with their own agendas, to create mischief? A client of mine who is a resident of a St. Paul care facility voted in early October. Someone at, or through the nursing made arrangements for her to obtain an absentee ballot. This client is fully competent, but how many from the home who voted may not be competent. Query--What is the level of competency that is required to vote?_If a person is signing a Last Will the level of competence is quite low. Is voting similar?

Question 2: Soil and Water Conservation. I have no idea who were the candidates.

Question 5: Minnesota seems to me to be very flexible, particularly since voters may vote absentee or early voting.

Tony Solgård (10) (9) (8)
Question 2: Judges; soil & water conservation district board members.

Question 3: For single-winner offices to which we are accustomed, I strongly agree that every winning candidate should receive a majority through Ranked Choice Voting. For example, 14 of the last 20 statewide offices were decided by less than a majority of the voters. That's got to change. But I don't think the Georgia-style two-round runoff is a better option than what we have now. Instant Runoff Voting would accomplish the purpose without the drawbacks of a second election.

My nuance on this question is that the multi-winner version of Ranked Choice voting would elect legislative bodies by proportional representation. More voters would elect representatives and majority rule would be assured. However, the threshold for winning would be reduced as the number of winners to be elected within a district increased. So, I would be opposed to a proposal that literally would require every winning candidate to receive a majority of the votes.

Question 5: Election Day on a weekend, more than one day of voting, greater allowance for "absentee" ballots (whether absent or not), vote-by-mail, and someday even internet voting. Regarding locations, given the strong preference for paper ballots, I don't see any way to get around voting in a designated precinct.

Jim Keller (0) (0) (0)
I believe we should not have same day registration unless we have photo ID with address.

Question 2: None.

Question 5: I believe voting has been made very convenient; this is not the problem with participation.

Victoria Ford (7) (10) (10)
I voted absentee in this election. It was surprisingly difficult to do so, because of some complications of my personal circumstances. Absentee ballots have to be witnessed, either by a voter registered in your precinct or by someone with the ability to swear an oath (notary public, justice of the peace, etc.). I went to a notary public, but he refused to witness my ballot because the address on my drivers license did not match the address at which I am registered to vote (I moved out of my house and into temporary housing for a few weeks before coming to PA, during which the September primary occurred, so I registered to vote in my new precinct but did not change my Minnesota drivers license).

Question 2: Judges. It is so difficult for voters to get information about these candidates.

Question 5: Voting period extended from one day to one week (or more). Official federal holiday for election day. Ability to choose to vote at a location that is either in your precinct or close to your workplace. Internet voting.

Mark Ritchie
These two articles point out how a lie launched into the current media structure can last for a long, long time.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S662405.shtml?cat=89

http://www.minnpost.com/davidbrauer/2008/11/12/4565/minneapolis_election_director_speaks_ballots_in_my_car_story_false'

Donna Anderson (5) (5) (9)
Question 2: increased understanding of and use of absentee ballot, and realistic procedures for counting the ballots.

Question 4: Many polling places are located in crowded neighborhoods and have architectural barriers (many steps), making it difficult for persons with disabilities and physical limitations, young and older as well as parents with young children.

Bill Hamm (2) (5) (4)
Question 1: Too long for whom, lazy citizens?

Question 2: Judges, the last thing I want to see in Minnesota is the kind of ugly race we up here in the Duluth area saw next door in Wisconsin. Judges are suppose to be appointed and I agree with the process Al Quie was involved with where an independent review panel recommends, who ever appoints, and then stand for election after that. It gives the people the chance to remove a sitting Judge if needed. Of course all opposition would also have to endure screening too.

Question 3: IRV has its place, (at large school board elections for example), but for State elections it would only come into effect if there were at least 3 candidates on the ballot. As someone who has been a third party candidate twice now I am not convinced that IRV could or would help me in any way.

Question 4: Considering voter turnout in my area of the state there is no justification for any massive change. We have mail out ballots for nearly half of District 3A where I ran. The down side is that it takes 12 days out of the campaign for those folks and really messes up advertising.

Question 5: Rather than time and location changes I would argue for a five-year tax incentive for first time voters. We need to insist that our education system teaches how our civic process works to all our pre 18's; they have a right to know how to participate, and teachers unions are standing in the way of that full force.

David Hutcheson (7) (4) (4)

Certainly don't have comprehensive or specific knowledge, but have a general impression that getting a new generation of volunteers for election judge is becoming progressively more urgent. How is this going to be done?

Question 2: Soil and Water / some judges, depending on how we resolve the question of judicial offices in general.

Question 5: Keep the current election day date and hours as is; supplement it with some early voting times, perhaps a 6- or 8- hour day on one or two Saturdays before the election day.

Brian Thiel (8) (0) (0)
Nothing is more important than having a public who has confidence in the fairness of the election process where only one ballot from only qualified voters will ever be fairly counted. Many of the recent changes have not produced any improvement. Vote fraud is a much greater problem these days than disenfranchisement.

I am very queasy about not requiring adequate evidence that people appearing at the polls are who they say they are. Fortunately, in MN because we do not have early balloting there is less opportunity for a person to come back on subsequent days and pretend to be somebody else when different poll workers won't recognize them. At least in MN there is some chance they would be recognized as somebody who already came to that precinct.

I am not convinced that ballot fraud is prevented by current MN policy in the instance where somebody sends an absentee ballot and then appears at the polls. Certainly the instance this year in WI proves that it was very easy to commit voter fraud there. Is MN any better? Show convincingly to a bi-partisan and technically savvy panel that it cannot happen here.

Voter registration is so loosey-goosey these days it is almost certain to provide plenty of opportunity for fraud.

Arguments that voting should not be intimidating are just plain silly. Voting should be somewhat intimidating, at least enough to cause every citizen to think a lot about what he/she is doing and to pay some personal price (time and inconvenience) to do so. In sports we say, "no pain, no gain." Same thing goes for citizenship.

Question 2: I favor the appointment/retention election process for judges and that alone would simplify (shorten) the ballot.

Question 3: No, this is a bad idea. It greatly increases the complexity to the voters who already are complaining of too many choices. Neither does it scale with how many voters regard their candidate options. In a ranking system the presumption is erroneous that a voter's #1 choice is only marginally preferred than his/her #2,
who is only marginally better than #3, etc. A recent Senatorial election should remind us this is a very real concern. For example, an election has 3 candidates. I want to vote 100% for A and 0% for B or C. How do I vote for that? I want to vote 50% for A and 25% for B or C. How do I vote for that? Until every proponent of such arrangements understands the statistical complexity of multivariate analysis, and can devise a way to explain it to the rest of us they need to be told to keep their ideas back in the lab.

Question 4: Anybody has a 12 hour time span on election day or can file an absentee ballot.

Roger Heegaard (_) (8) (10)
I think the whole process is way too long.

Question 5: Establish a national holiday or, if that won't "sell" change elections to weekends.

Sheila Kiscaden (4) (9) (9)
Question 2: Soil and Water Conservation Districts. Judges: should follow Quie Commission recommendations.

Question 5: Expand early voting/absentee options.

Jackie Underferth (7) (0) (10)
Question 2: Judges! Soil and Water Commissioners.

Question 5: Election Day should be Saturday. I also think absentee ballots should be allowed with no reason given. My cousin lives in Pleasanton, CA and her ballot is mailed automatically to her every year. Very convenient and with the size of their ballots, they need all the time they can get to look at all the propositions. Thankfully, we don't have that in Minnesota.

George Pillsbury (10) (10) (10)
Question 2: Park Board etc.

Tim Utz (5) (10) (10)
What we need are informed, educated voters willing to vote a conviction at the ballot box based on research of candidates positions and or voting records, not mass celebrity voting or voting for who a voter thinks can win.

Question 2: I understand the ballot holds constitutionally elected positions. If I am correctly understanding, I am 100% against changing how we elect by constitutional rule of law.

Question 4: We need people to grow up and take serious personal responsibility for our constitutional privilege to vote.

Jim Olson (10) (10) (10)

Jody A. Hauer (1) (3) (9)

Absentee ballots ought to be available to any registered voter who cares to use them.

So much of our lives are managed digitally these days. I pay my bills, reserve my library books, and purchase clothing and groceries online. It seems that voting online should be feasible.

Question 2: Offices with very low visibility, such as the soil and water conservation board members, where candidates do little campaigning and voters have little useful information on which to base a selection.

Question 5: Online voting should become the norm or at least be made
available.

Wayne Jennings (5) (8) (10)
Question 2: Water board, library board, etc. or other local boards other than schools.

Question 5: Weekends plus traditional Tuesday plus more use of absentee ballots. Use
schools which are widely disbursed in all communities.

Barry Hickethier (2) (1) (0)
Question 2: None, other than perhaps things like soil/water commissioner that could be appointed. This would be better if we had more of a city manager structure in Minneapolis.

Question 4: Aleady ample time. Multiple days, early voting, etc. open the door for more fraud. If same day reg were eliminated and official photo id were required it may be possible to accommodate a longer voting period. Multiple days would also make it more difficult to find sufficient number of election judges, poll challengers for each party, etc.

Question 5: Should eliminate same day registration so that lines move faster. Also, require an official state id when checking in.

Chris Brazelton (3) (10) (8)
There were many absentee ballots in our area not counted because the clerk failed to write down identifying information on the outer envelope. There needs to be a process in place so that clerical errors don't disenfranchise voters.

Also, spoiled ballots should be rejected by the counter and the voter given the opportunity to go back and correct their error.

Question 2: None

Question 5: Voting could run for a week and be available at malls and other locations with ample parking.

Tom Swain (2) (8) (5)
Question 2: Water, soil conservation, district judges

Lyall Schwarzkopf (10) (0) (3)
Question 2:  Unopposed judges, and city or county or special district administrative 
positions like County Treasurer
 
Question 5: I believe our present system is fine.

    

The Civic Caucus   is a non-partisan, tax-exempt educational organization.   The Core participants include persons of varying political persuasions, reflecting years of leadership in politics and business. Click here  to see a short personal background of each.

   Verne C. Johnson, chair;  Lee Canning,  Charles Clay, Bill Frenzel, 
Paul Gilje,  Jim Hetland,  John Mooty,  Jim Olson,  Wayne Popham  and  John Rollwagen.  


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The Civic Caucus, 01-01-2008
8301 Creekside Circle #920,   Bloomington, MN 55437.  civiccaucus@comcast.net
Verne C. Johnson, chair, 952-835-4549,       Paul A. Gilje, coordinator, 952-890-5220.

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