here for PDF format
of Meeting with John Marty
Civic Caucus, 8301
Creekside Circle, Bloomington, MN 55437
Friday, January 5,
speaker: State Sen. John Marty,
leading exponent for changes in elections, and chair, Health, Housing and
Family Security Committee
Verne Johnson, chair
(by phone), Chuck Clay, Bill Frenzel (by phone), Paul Gilje, Jim Hetland
(by phone), Jim Olson (by phone), Wayne Popham (by phone), Clarence
Shallbetter (by phone)
Context of the meeting--Today's
meeting is a continuation of the Civic Caucus inquiry into the
relationship between the elections process and polarization and paralysis
B. Welcome and
introduced State Sen. John Marty, a member of the Senate since 1987. Marty
is a graduate of St. Olaf College with a B. A. in Ethics. The son of
author and theologian Martin Marty, he is a former corporate foundation
administrator and is a free- lance writer. He and his wife Connie have
two children and live in Roseville.
Opening remarks by Marty--In
his opening remarks Marty made the following points:
1. Rebuilding of the Citizens League--Marty
said he had not been previously familiar with the Civic Caucus but he took
note of the fact that many persons in the Civic Caucus have been active in
the Citizens League for many years. Sean Kershaw seems to be doing an
effective job of rebuilding the Citizens League, which is more needed now
than ever before.
2. Democracy seems to be getting weaker--In
some of our actions in the political process it's almost as if we are out
to destroy democracy, not build it up. Political campaigns seem much too
long. He noted that Sen. Mark Dayton no sooner had completed his
six-year term in the U. S. Senate before he started talking about possibly
running for Governor in four years. News coverage is getting weaker and
recent House race between Michelle Bachmann and Patty Wetterling as an
example, Marty said that the longer the race went on, the more you would
think that neither should be elected, because of all the cheap attacks and
misinformation being circulated. He attributes the negative campaigning
to the explosion in availability of campaign funding.
mentioned that he's now chair of the Senate Health Care Committee and that
health care is ranked by many as the No. 1 issue in the state. However,
he's bothered by the discussion that is taking place over the issue.
Instead of having a rational discussion on all options, it seems as if the
question of taxes can't be discussed in connection with what is done about
2. Clean up campaign nastiness--Marty
knows you can't interfere with free speech, but maybe something like the
Minnesota News Council could be created: a body without ability to
enforce its decisions, but with significant moral authority. Such a
Council could be a watchdog during campaigns and highlight cheap shots
that are being taken.
3. Reform campaign finance--In
2000, Marty said, as an example, George W. Bush defeated Elizabeth Dole
for the GOP presidential nomination, not because he was more articulate or
thoughtful, but strictly because he had ability to raise more money. The
need for raising large sums of money discourages people from running for
4. Change media coverage--The main
problem is all the emphasis on who is likely to win rather than covering
the issues in the campaign. He realizes that problems are severe, that
the owners of the Pioneer Press cut the news staff and that the future of
the Star Tribune coverage is uncertain because of change in ownership.
We have many more sources of information now than in the past but we
aren't getting better information
5. More corporate and non-profit
observed the power of stockholders to prevent spending of corporate
dollars for efforts that would help the environment and other well-being
of the customer. Marty said that some kind of new corporate structure
could be set up that would allow a corporation to invest dollars in the
public good without threat of stockholder opposition.
Discussion with Marty--During
the discussion with Marty the following points were raised:
1. Validity of "cooperation" talk in
Washington and St. Paul--A
member commented that lawmakers on both sides of the aisle in Congress and
the State Legislature as well as the executive branch seem to be talking
more about working together, not simply confrontation, nowadays. Marty
replied that he, too, sees evidence of more cooperation. He said he's
pleasantly surprised. In the past it has seemed as if people had as their
chief objective to "stick it to the other side". There seems to be a
genuine interest in trying to accomplish good legislation. He quoted one
legislative leader who, in private with others of the same party, said,
"Just because they're Republicans doesn't mean they don't have good
ideas," Ė an attitude that was much less common in the recent past.
2. Growing role of legislative caucuses in
running campaigns--Marty said
he regrets the growing role of legislative caucuses in campaigns. He
recalls that in 1993 the Legislature enacted changes in campaign finance
but at the time, it wasn't politically feasible to limit the role of
legislative caucuses, he said. Amounts spent by the legislative caucuses
have grown considerably. He remembers that his own DFL Senate Caucus was
spending about $500,000 a few years ago. That number is now about $2
million per campaign. In some cases as many as six mailings to voters in
a district are being financed with this money.
he supports recommendations by David Schultz for limits on contributions
to legislative caucuses and limits on spending by legislative caucuses on
his commentary on the growth in campaign finance, Marty cited the case of
Paul Simon of Illinois who decided in 1996 not to run for the Senate,
because he'd need to raise about $6 million. In 2007 you'd need about
$20 million for such a race, Marty said.
financing is corrupting who candidates are and what they care about.
Marty recalled a few sessions ago that a legislative staffer suggested
that Marty change his position on a bill because of a large contribution
made to the legislative caucus.
3. Proposed campaign legislation to be
introduced--Marty said he will
be introducing legislation that will provide more campaign financing.
You can't stop big money from being contributed in independent
expenditures, he said, but you can provide public money to the other
candidate to offset those expenditures. He also will propose limits on
legislative caucus spending.
4. Possible changes in nominations process--Marty
said he supports recommendations originally made by the Growe commission a
decade ago that would enable more candidates to receive party endorsement
for the same office. All candidates receiving at least 20-30 percent
support at a nominating convention, could be listed as endorsed by the
reviewed situations where major lobbyist organizations endorsed against
him. When Marty ran for Governor in 1994, organized labor supported
another candidate that labor thought would be more supportive of the
Prairie Island nuclear plant. The Teamsters never have endorsed Marty.
Labor also has opposed Marty because of his opposition to public funds for
stadiums, he said.
5. Opposition to an earlier primary--Marty
disagrees with moving the primary date backwards because it would work
against his objective to reduce the length of campaigns.
Constitutionally, you can't stop candidates, but a short season between
the primary and the general election promotes focus on the campaign. He
recalled that in 1994 Arne Carlson beat the endorsed Republican candidate
and then cleaned up on Marty in the general election. Four years later
Skip Humphrey beat the endorsed DFL candidate in a tough race, yet despite
a tough primary, he was still far ahead of the general election candidates
in the late September polls. He didnít lose because of too little time
between the primary and general. In fact, he would have had a better
chance if the primary was closer to the primary. So Marty believes there
is plenty of time between the primary and the general election.
6. Potential of the single transferable vote
(also known as instant runoff voting)--A Civic Caucus member
noted that the largest bloc of voters in Minnesota are independents.
Wouldn't instant runoff voting be an asset, he asked? Marty replied that
he has supported the idea for a long time and that he already had
introduced a bill for instant runoff voting. He believes it would be an
asset, not for the parties but for the process.
7. Changes in redistricting?--Marty
said he favors shifting responsibility from the Legislature to a
reapportionment commission. He's disappointed with the U. S. Supreme
Court ruling on the Texas redistricting, because it could lead to other
states' passing new redistricting legislation every time control of a
legislative body shifts from one party to the other.
noted that next Friday the Civic Caucus will be meeting with Ed Cook of
the Iowa Legislative Services Agency to discuss the Iowa approach to
reapportionment. Marty recalled that some legislators in Iowa weren't
happy with a recent redrawing of the legislative boundaries because in
about one-third of the races incumbents were forced to run against one
response to a question Marty said he doesn't think it is good that a
Legislature, directly affected by reapportionment, should make the
reapportionment decisions. The problem arises, he said, when you try to
design a workable independent body.
8. More single-issue groups?--Marty
said he has seen more single-issue groups in the past, but it still is a
problem. He favors multiple party endorsement for the same office as a
9. Problem of big, last-minute, independent
campaign contributions--A member noted that in the last weeks
of Minnesota's campaign for governor that large independent campaign
contributions came in, seemingly almost out of nowhere. Marty repeated
his suggestion that public financing should be available by the affected
candidate to offset the efforts of the last-minute attacks financed by
independent groups. He said that Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life
and Education Minnesota, two large lobby groups, have opposed his
proposals to bring in public financing on the other side, not because it
would block their ability to get their message out, but because it would
give the other side equal time. His proposal, he said, is designed to
assure that all views are represented.
10. "Earmarking" in spending bills--Marty
said the designation of spending to benefit a specific district or
interest is far more prevalent at the federal than state level. He
recalled, however, while he was sitting on a conference committee, that a
proposal suddenly appeared for $2 million in tax breaks for Northwest
Airlines was on the table; no one would take responsibility for arguing in
favor of the idea, but it passed by a two-thirds vote.
11. Process as chair of Health Committee--Marty
was asked how he plans to conduct himself as chair of the important Health
Committee in the Senate. He said he goes out of his way to run a fair
committee and be responsive to all members, irrespective of party.
12. Growing tendency to place taxes and
appropriations in the state constitution--It
was noted that the Legislature last session submitted a constitutional
amendment (adopted by the voters) to dedicate a portion of sales tax
receipts to transportation and that another dedication--this time for
outdoors--will be pursued aggressively in this session. Marty said he
agrees that it is not good policy to put such legislation in the
constitution. He said that last year he agreed reluctantly to support
the outdoors amendment if it dealt only with dedicating new money (e.g. an
increase in the sales tax) and that it benefits a general area, not
specific interests. However, he would not have supported the final bill
under consideration, and believes that if we need more money for a certain
part of the budget, legislators should have the courage to vote for more
funding and the taxes to pay for it, not duck their responsibility by
putting funding in the constitution.
13. Potential legislative interest in more
accountability for transportation spending--It was noted that
the Legislature has not seemed to concern itself with whether a
transportation improvement will reduce congestion or not, but rather that
transit and highways will each get its share, irrespective of the impact
on congestion. Marty replied that he is a skeptic of LRT because he
fears the investment will undercut the bus system. He would much prefer
investing transit dollars in reducing fares, possibly down to 25 cents a
ride, to increase riders. More riders should be the measurement of
effectiveness, he said. During the discussion reference was made to a
2003 report of the Civic Caucus. Marty asked that a copy of the report
be given to him.
14. Changes in the Metropolitan Council?--Marty
is concerned that at one time there were nine developers appointed to the
Metropolitan Council He's not opposed to an elected Metropolitan
Council, but he'd rather like to see the seven counties merged into one,
so you don't add another elected group on top of the counties.
15. Move to appointment of judges--Marty
believes recent court decisions threaten the independence of the
judiciary, because candidates for judgeships now can be endorsed by, and
financed by, political parties. Marty said he is impressed with the
consistent high quality of non-partisan appointments of judges by
Minnesota governors when vacancies occur between elections. To protect
the independence of the judiciary he would favor having judges be
appointed in Minnesota rather than elected. He would prefer possibly
behalf of the Civic Caucus, Verne Johnson thanked Marty for meeting with
The Civic Caucus
is a non-partisan,
tax-exempt educational organization. Core participants
include persons of varying political persuasions, reflecting
years of leadership in politics and business.
A working group meets face-to-face to
provide leadership. They are Verne C. Johnson, chair; Lee
Canning, Charles Clay, Bill Frenzel,
Paul Gilje, Jim Hetland,
John Mooty, Jim Olson, Wayne Popham and John Rollwagen.
Click Here to
see a biographical statement of each.